SA 2014: Heupvuur vir Program 2

Erns Grundling

Helen Zille is 'n parlementslid vir die DA en Koos van der Merwe is die IVP se hoofsweep. Dié twee ervare politici neem Sondag deel aan SA 2014. LitNet het hulle gepeper met 'n paar vrae oor partypolitiek.

Helen Zille	Koos van der Merwe

1. Wat maak dat mense in Suid-Afrika deelneem aan die demokrasie, of nie?

Helen Zille: People in South Africa, and elsewhere, participate in the democratic process if they believe they can influence the outcome. When they have hope that their participation will change things, or impact their future for the better, they participate. If they feel powerless, they are less likely to participate. There are many ways of participating in a democracy, ranging from voting in an election to joining a local organisation to advance a particular cause, to joining a political party. The variety of these involvements, exercised through the free choice of citizens, is central to the functioning of a democracy.

Koos van der Merwe: Om omstandighede te verbeter.

2. Is demokrasie as 'n politieke stelsel werkbaar in die Afrika-konteks?

Hellen Zille: Yes, democracy is workable as a political system in Africa. It is likely that these democracies will be single-party dominant democracies for long periods. Some democratic theorists argue that you cannot call a country a democracy until government has changed hands peacefully through the ballot box twice. That is a tough test, and one that not many countries on our continent would pass. I think that one can measure countries in terms of whether they retain the conditions necessary for a peaceful change of government through the ballot box. As long as there is a multiparty system that can hold government accountable, offering political choice for citizens, freedom of speech and association, and an independent judiciary under the rule of law, then the basic requirements of a democratic order are met. As far as I am aware, Botswana meets these criteria, and so does South Africa. Several other countries in Africa are making progress towards achieving them.

Koos van der Merwe: Tot 'n mate. Beperkings as gevolg van die groot verskeidenheid mense.

3. Kan ons werklik van 'n demokrasie in Suid-Afrika praat, gegewe die onlangse verkiesingsuitslae waar die ANC 'n reusemeerderheid behaal het?

Helen Zille: South Africa is a clear example of a single-party dominant state, and it is undoubtedly true that too much power is concentrated in too few hands. This is not good for democracy, but it does not make democracy untenable. Whether or not a democracy survives, depends largely on the vigilance and energy of the opposition and their commitment to playing their role (rather than succumbing to co-option), and whether that role is recognised and respected. This is also assisted by a free press, a vigorous civil society, and an independent judiciary.

Koos van der Merwe: Ja. Daar was 'n verkiesing. Dit is demokrasie.

4. Kan partye soos die DA of die ANC werklik diversiteit in hul eie partye kry? Met ander woorde, is die Westerse ideaal van verteenwoordigende belangegroepe werklik lewensvatbaar, gegewe Suid-Afrika se diversiteit wat taal en kultuur betref?

Helen Zille: This is a major challenge, but one that we must meet if we are to call ourselves a democracy. If race and language groups determine political affiliations then there will be permanent majorities and minorities and no chance of a change of power. The ideal in a democracy is to have policies and ideas as the basis of party formation - not race, language or other factors. Given our history, it will be very hard to transcend the historically divisive factors, particularly race, but we must strive towards that. There are some promising signs that this will happen, but it will be a long process, rather than an overnight event. People still vote overwhelmingly according to racial blocks.

Koos van der Merwe: Ja, mits die leiers sensitief is vir diversiteit.

5. Hoe verskil die demokrasie in Suid-Afrika van demokrasieë regoor die wêreld?

Helen Zille: Every country has unique elements in its democracy. As long as a country's political system is characterised by regular elections in a multiparty system, respect for human rights, an independent judiciary under the rule of law, and freedom of the press/speech and association, it can call itself a democracy, even though this may manifest in very different ways - for example unitary or federal systems, parliamentary or presidential systems, etc. One of our features is the involvement in the process of non-elected traditional leaders. Another is our concept of "sufficient consensus" that has been applied successfully in negotiations on the democratic constitution. There are also small, symbolic differences, like rituals in Parliament, that make South Africa's democracy different.

Mostly, these are differences to celebrate. Some elements of our democracy should be viewed with great caution, and some opposed - such as the "deployment" policy whereby ANC cadres are placed in all top positions in government and civil society. This is a grave threat to democracy, as it seems to impose ANC hegemony. These "unique" elements of our democracy should be resisted in order to safeguard the fundamentals of our democracy.

Koos van der Merwe: Die groot verskil lê in die verkiesingsuitslag waar een party 70% kry en 30% deur 'n dosyn partye gedeel word.

6. Suid-Afrika word gekenmerk deur sterk burgerlike-samelewing-strukture. Watter bydrae lewer partye om die behoud daarvan te verseker?

Helen Zille: A genuinely independent civil society, consisting of a multitude of voluntary organisations whose members come together on any imaginable issue, is central to our understanding of a democracy. Civil society must be independent of government and should not be the tool of any single political party. The independence of South Africa's civil society is sometimes threatened by the extent to which the ANC seeks to gain control of various organisations - or to the extent that organisations seek to align themselves with the governing party for the purpose of patronage. This can constitute a grave risk to the underpinnings of democracy.

Koos van der Merwe: Partye steun graag op burgerlike samelewingstrukture as 'n metode om steun te werf en ook weens innerlike oortuiging.



LitNet: 9 Julie 2004

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