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Arts & Culture Trust of the President

Nkululeko Peter speaks about himself, his people and his poetry

In this interview Nkululeko Peter, a young Xhosa poet, talks about how he started writing, what inspires him to write and about his experience of life in general. Abner Nyamende, co-ordinator of Isikhundla Sababhali, interviewed him.

AN: Nkululeko, ndifumene imibongo yakho apha yaye ndiyabona ukuba uzimisele ekubongeni. Ingaba ubonga ngokubhala okanye ukhe ubonge nje naphakathi kwabantu?

    NP: Ewe ndibonga ngokubhala ikakhulu, kodwa naphakathi kwabantu ndiye ndikwazi ukuthi into xa ndiye ndayibona ndithethe ngayo, ndibhekise amazwi ngayo.

AN: Khawutsho ke, Nkululeko, ungumni?

    NP: NdinguTolo, uZulu, uDlangamandla, uMchenge.

AN: UMasali, uSavukathi?

    NP: Ewe.

AN: O, ndiyabona ke, Tolo. Liphi ikhaya?

    NP: LiseGcuwa, eKhoboti, kwesikaNtsimangwe isiphaluka.

AN: Usenabo abazali?

    NP: Ewe: umama notata basaphila.

AN: Benzani?

    NP: Utata uyaphangela, yisecurity, umama akaphangeli.

AN: Ubonakala usengumfana oselula. Iminyaka yakho mingaphi?

    NP: Ilishumi elinesithoba.

AN: Ufunda phi?

    NP: Ndifunda eIntlanganiso High School.

AN: O, wenza liphi ibanga ngoku?

    NP: Ndenza ibanga leshumi.

AN: Masibuyele ke kwisakhono sakho sokubonga. Khawutsho ke, Tolo, yintoni ekwenze ukuba bhala imihobe?

    NP: Ikakhulu imihobe yam isingisele elizweni. Ngoku ke into eye yandenza ukuba mandibhale — njengokuba imihobe yam ithetha ngesizwe — kukubona izinto ezehlayo apha phandle nezibuhlungu ezigubungele isizwe.

AN: O, ezi zinto wabona okokuba makhe uthethe ngazo, ukhalime?

    NP: Ewe, ndikhalime ndibhekise esizweni. Ndiziveze neendlela ezithi zivele ngazo, neendlela esinokuthi sizikhusele ngazo singabantu.

AN: Abanye abantwana abaziintanga zakho bengathethi nto nje bona bejonge nje, yintoni ekwenza wena okokuba ufune ukuthetha usakubona izinto ezenzekayo?

    NP: Ndingathi, Mr Nyamende, xana uyimbongi, unesiphiwo sobumbongi kunzima ukuba ungayinyamezela into ebuhlungu uyibona, usuke ufune ukuba mawukwazi ukuyibhekisa eluntwini nasesizweni ukuze sikwazi naso ukuzikhusela ngaloo nto. Abanye abantu bayakwazi ukuphosa iso bayibone into kodwa bangayiboneli ukuba bangayibhekisa esizweni. Le nto inje ngentlungu.

AN: Ndithi uselula nje, uyazela phi into yokuba le nto ifanele okokuba ayihambi ngolu hlobo, ihamba ngolunye uhlobo? Nditsho esi siphiwo sokuba into uyibone ukuba ifanele ukuba mayilungiswe ayihambi ngolu hlobo. Ndicinga ukuba yinto ibinokubonwa mhlawumbi ngumntu osele emkhulu, oselekhe wabona ukuba izinto xa zihamba kakuhle zihamba njani. Obu bunzulu ubuthatha phi? Ungakhe usichazele ngabo?

    NP: Ubunzulu ndingathi sisiphiwo, kuba esi siphiwo ndiqale ukusibona ndisekwibanga lesine xana ndandinyulwe ukuba mandibe yimbongi eza kumela abafundi besikolo ababezakwenzelwa ifarewell, kusithiwa ndlela ntle kubo. Ndaqala apho ukuzibona ukuba noko ubumbongi obu sisiphiwo sam. Kwabuzwa esikolweni ukuba nguwuphi na onokuthi abe yimbongi. Ndaziphakamisa ukuba ndingayimela loo nto.

AN: Wase unemihobe oyibhalileyo ngelo xesha?

    NP: Ndandingekabhali ngoko — ukubhala ndikuqale xa ndikwibanga lesiHlanu.

AN: Uthi wavele nje wazonyula wathi ungakwazi ukubonga?

    NP: Ewe ndazonyula. Kodwa ukuzonyula kwam zange ndizonyule ngomhobe owawuphuma kum, kuba bendinemihobe endimane ndiyifunda ephuma kwabanye ababhali. Umhobe endama ngawo esidlangalaleni phakathi kwabantu ngumhobe owawuphuma kwimbongi yesizwe, uMnu. Samuel Edward Krune Mqhayi owawusithi, “Ukutshona kukaMendi”. Kuba elaa xesha kwakuthiwa ndlela ntle kubafundi kwakungafunwa mhobe osingisele mhlawumbi ukuthi ndlelantle kubafundi — kwakufunwa nje imbongi enokuthi ikwazi ukuhlasimlisa abazali.

AN: Khawutsho ke: wabonga? Kwaqhubeka njani, kwenzeka ntoni? Kwaba njani loo mini? Beva njani abantu? Khawucacise ngohlobo owayiva ngalo wena loo nto ukwenzeka kwayo.

    NP: Ndabonga kakhulu apho kwavokotheka, kangangokuba inimba yasika kubazali abaninzi. Basuka bachiphiza iinyembezi nje bengasiwanga sandla, ukubonakalisa ukuba le nto ndiyithethayo itsho ngaphakathi entliziyweni.

AN: Ingaba wawusenza iintshukumo ngezandla zakho kusini na?

    NP: Ewe, ndandenza iintsukumo, nditshila ndiseqongeni.

AN: Wawuminyaka mingaphi ngoko xa wawukuGrade 6? Masithi nje ke siyaqikelela ukuba unokuba wawuminyaka mingaphi?

    NP: Ndandineminyaka esibhozo.

AN: Wawuselula kakhulu. Mandithi ke ukusukela ngoko zange uphinde uyeke ukubonga.

    NP: Zange ndiphinde ndiyeke. Kodwa zange ndiphinde ndiye kuma eqongeni ngoku — ndasebenza ngokubhala qha.

AN: Iphi ke loo mibongo yokuqala yokubhala kwakho?

    NP: Imibongo yokuqala ndayinika utitshala owayendifundisa ibanga lesihlanu esithi uza kuyithumela komnye utitshala owayengaphaya kwidyunivesithi yaseTranskei, ukuba iye kuhlelwa khona. Andiyazi ngoku ukuba yaphelela phi kodwa andikeva nto ngayo. Ndikhe ndizame ukudibana naye kodwa akandiniki ntloko.

AN: Ngokwangoku ke ukubhala kwakho ubhala uthini? Imibongo yakho ubhala uze uyithini?

    NP: Imibongo yam ndiyibhala ndiyigcine ezincwadini zam, ukuze ndikwazi ukuthi xana ithe yamininzi — njengokuba sendidibene nawe — ndikwazi ukuyithumela apha.

AN: O, injongo yakho kukuba ekugqibeleni iphume iyincwadi?

    NP: Ewe, tata.

AN: Ithethe into yokokuba usafuna ukufundisa isizwe, ngakumbi ngeemeko zobomi? Kwezi zinto uzibonayo zenzekayo ebomini apha ungabalula ntoni ekuchukumisa kakhulu nesoloko ifuna ukuba uthethe ngayo xa ubhala?

    NP: Into endichukumisa kakhulu kwizinto endizibonayo ezehlayo apha ebomini ikakhulu sisifo ugawulayo esathi sagubungela isizwe, kodwa yayingesiso sizwe sethu sodwa, ingamazwe ehlabathi ephela. Ndingathanda ukugxininisa ikakhulu kulutsha kwizinto ezidibene nothando nendlela ekunokuthi kuxhotywe ngayo ukuzama ukulwa esi sifo.

AN: Ingaba ikhona enye into ekuchukumisayo? Okanye masithi ke kwesi sifo sikuchukumisa kangaka kwenzeka njani? Wabona umntu ogula siso kusini?

    NP: Umntu ogula siso andikamboni. Kodwa apho ndimbona khona yindlela endiye ndive ukuba senzeka ngayo esi sifo.

AN: Ingaba ikamva lakho ekubhaleni ulibona njani?

    NP: Ikamva lam ekubhaleni — njengoko sendidibene nawe, Mnu. Nyamende — ndingathi kukhona liza kuya liqaqamba libheka phambili.

AN: Uzimisele ukubhala eminye imihobe?

    NP: Ndingatsho, Mr Nyamende, ndizimisele ngakumbi ukubhala eminye imihobe, kwanokukhupha iincwadi ezifana neenoveli, iishort stories, imidlalo yeqonga.

AN: O, akuphelelanga apha emihobeni.

    NP: Andiphelelanga apha emihobeni.

AN: Xa unokuthetha ngokubhalwa kwezinto zesiXhosa yintoni oyibonayo wena ukuba ifuna ukwenziwa ekubhalweni kweencwadi zesiXhosa? Yintoni ekufanele ukuba siyenze thina babhali, ngokubona kwakho nangokwamava akho njengokuba ubhala?

    NP: Ekubhalweni kweencwadi zesiXhosa mna olwam uluvo endinokuvela ngalo kukuthi xana singababhali sizibhala ezi ncwadi, sikwazi ukuthi incwadi lena esiyibhalayo ibe ngesehlo — ngezinto ezenzekayo apha ebomini kweli xesha langoku, sikwazi nokuthi silumkise kwanoluntu jikelele ngaloo nto siza kuba sithetha ngayo encwadini. Kuba incwadi kufuneka ibe nento eyenzekayo kwanendlela enokusonjululwa ngayo loo nto. Ibe nemfundiso inoveli.

AN: Ingaba ke amava akho anjani ngokufundwa kweencwadi zesiXhosa? Xa nditshoyo ndijonge iincwadi ezipapashiweyo zesiXhosa, ndibone iziincwadi ezifundwa esikolweni kuphela. Abantu nje entlalweni phaya ingaba bayazifunda iincwadi zesiXhosa ngokubona kwakho?

    NP: Ekuhlaleni kunzima ukuba ndingatsho ndithi iincwadi abantu bayazifunda, kuba ikakhulu abantu abanokufunda iincwadi lulutsha jikelele lona bantu basesezikolweni, kuba abazali sekunzima ukuba incwadi bangayithenga nje bona ngokunokwabo, ingakumbi ezesiXhosa.

AN: Makwenziwe ntoni ke, Nkululeko, ukwenzela ukuba abantu — naba abadala — bazithenge iincwadi. Athi nokuba uhleli esitendini phaya uyathengisa abe efunda incwadi?

    NP: Umbandela waloo nto ndingathi xana sinokuthi thina singababhali sithethathethane malunga nokuthengiswa kweencwadi — umhlawumbi amaxabiso wazo athotywe — ndingatsho ndithi kungalula nakubo, phambi kokuba incwadi bayikhutshelwe ibe ibhengeziwe kwakoonomathotholo okanye koomabonakude ukuba isingiselele entwenini na, ithetha ngantoni.

AN: Ingaba kukho nto unokuyicebisa malunga nababhali besiXhosa ekuncedisaneni kwabo ukuba mababhale imibutho yabo isebenze njani?

    NP: Ewe zikhona iingcebiso endinokuzinika: xana sinokuthi thina singababhali — njengoko siza kube siyenzile le mibutho yethu — sibe banye, siyazi into yokokuba ilizwi lethu linye.

AN: Kanene njengokuba uhlala eSite C nje: andithi iSite C le ngumzi wamatyotyombe?

    NP: Ewe, Mr Nyamende.

AN: Kwenzeka kanjani okokuba kuphume umntu obhala imihobe endaweni engamatyotyombe? Kuba ke xa ndicinga nje ngabantu abangabhali abaxakekileyo. Kwenzeke kanjani ukuba wena ubhale?

    NP: Ukuze ndibhale — njengoko sewuyibekile ukuba abantu abahlala ematyotyombeni izinto ezinje ngezi bangafanela ze bazicinge — ndingathi nam iye yasisiphiwo nokuqhutywa zizinto zobomi ukuba nam mandibhale ngezinto ezenzekayo.

AN: Khawutsho ke imeko le yentlalo yaphaya eSite C uyibona njani wena: abantu bengahlali ezindlwini zesitena, behlala emankcenkceni, zithi xa zisitsha zitshe zonke kube kubi kakhulu, xa kubanda kungene amanzi ngamanye amaxesha? Uyibona njani imeko enjalo?

    NP: Imeko esiphila phantsi kwayo eSite C ibuhlungu kakhulu kwaye kusenzima nokuba ndingathi ingaze iphucuke. Amatyotyombe akasoze aphele kwangoko.

AN: Kutheni usithi akasoze aphele kwangoko?

    NP: Nditshiso kukuba kuyakwazi ukuthiwa siyakhelwa. Zakhiwe ezo zindlu, kodwa kufumaniseke ukuba abahlali abaneliseki. Ingasi kuba nam ndiyabagxeka kuba ezo zindlu ngoovezinyawo, indlu nje engenayo nekamela.

AN: Ithethe into yokokuba ngokubona kwakho ixesha liseza kukhe lihambe abantu bephila oba bomi?

    NP: Kunjalo, Mr Nyamende.

AN: Njengamntu uchukunyiswayo zizinto ezinje ngezo ingaba unayo imihobe ethetha ngemeko leyo yentlalo?

    NP: Ewe ndinayo imihobe ethetha ngemeko yentlalo.

AN: Ungakhe usixelele nokuba mnye kuyo? Sithini isihloko sawo?

    NP: “Konakele ukuhlala”

AN: Umhobe othi “Konakele ukuhlala”? Ukhona kwakule uyiphetheyo?

    NP: Ewe ukwakho kule.

AN: Ngeli xesha sisajonga lo uthi “Konakele ukuhlala”, kule mihobe yakho siyikhuphe kwi-internet, nguwuphi umhobe owuthandayo kakhulu?

    NP: Umhobe endiwuthandayo kule mihobe esiyikhuphe kwi-internet ngulo uthi “Isikolo”.

AN: Lo uthi “Isikolo” ungakhe usifundele wona?

    NP: Ewe ndingakhe ndiwufunde:

      Isikolo

      Ngumzi wakulomfundo.
      Umfundo ngumhlohli weendaba.
      Mntwana wam uze uncekelele.
      Ngathi sele usondele ebhantini,
      Utsho unozala.

      Isikolo yintaba kaNdoda.
      Ntaba leyo bathi yeyamathamsanqa.
      Nyoba imxinwa ukubheka phezulu.
      Kuba phulo liyakwazi ukubuya lingabethanga nyamakazi.
      Kuyatshonwa, kudlulelwa kumgca ongaphambili.
      Kodwa kuthanda abazingeli.

      Kuba bonke izixhobo, imikhonto, iinduku zingakubo.
      Mzingeli ingwe ifuna ukubanjwa ngobuchule, ngobunono,
      Nobucukubhede, nobulumko.
      Kuba ungenzi njalo ulixhoba lokufa.

      Namhla okaGambu umntwana ngumhleli weencwadi.
      Ilizwe lixhomekeke kuye.
      Kuba wanyamezela isikolo.
      Waphulaphula abazali.
      Unjalo ke oqeqeshiweyo umntwana.
      Umthathi uyawuzala umthathi.
      Isikolo indlu yakulo mfundo.

AN: Kulo mbongo wakho uthetha ngomntakaGambu. Ngubani umntakaGambu?

    NP: UmntakaGambu nguNtsikana, uNtsikana owaprofeta mini kwavela umqulu, ngethuba kwakufika iintlanga zasemzini ezinwele ziyephuyephu.

AN: Kukho qhalo lesiXhosa elithi “Umthathi uyawuzala umlotha”. Ulijikile wena eli qhalo walibeka ngolunye uhlobo. Kha uchaze ke, Nkululeko, ubuzama ukusixelela ntoni ngokulijika eli qhalo ulibeke ngolu hlobo ulibeke ngalo?

    NP: Into ebendizama ukuyiveza kwelaa qhalo ndizama ukuveza into yokokuba njengoko kwaXhosa kusithiwa umthathi uyawuzala umlotha, elaa qhalo lithetha ukuthi umntu olungileyo uyakwazi ukubazala abantwana abangalunganga. Eli lam lithi umntu olungileyo uyakwazi ukumzala umntwana olungileyo.

AN: Nanku ke lo mbongo uthi “Konakele ukuhlala”. Ungakhe usifundele wona khe sive.

    NP:

      Konakele ukuhlala

      Sahlala sawuzoba owasemaTolweni umzi.
      Sibonisa isidima samaTolo ekuhlaleni.
      Ingumzi wakulokhendle konwatyiwe.
      Singumzekelo ekuhlaleni kunconywa.

      Zonakala izinto mhla kwarhola utata.
      Kwaqala kwaxambuliswana.
      Akwabikho ufuna ukumamela omnye phakathi komama notata.
      Wavatha iqaqa utata akafuna kuxelelwa.
      Wamthuka umama zaqala zabhidana iikomityi.
      Adla amanzi abilileyo ebusweni bukatata,
      Ladla igwangqa entloko kumama, wathi natya phantsi
      Sele ebomvu ligazi.
      Isizekabani yimali yomrholo.

      Ndahlinzeka yile nto,
      Yanditsho ndaliphimpi, ndayilanda le mali ndiyithuka.
      Kuba isidima samaTolo imke naso.
      Yenze ihlazo nasekuhlaleni.
      Kuba kuthe uvela kwayo akwavisiswana.
      Kwaphalala igazi ngendlela emnyama.
      Kothukwa sele kophulwe kuba umtshato sisiphelo sawo eso.
      Neso siphelo asiyomfuneko.

      OkamQwathi umzi usasibambile esawo isidima.
      Kuba uvisiswano ngemali lukhona kwakurholwa.
      Hayi ukuba makude kuphalale igazi.

      Ngumtyholi lona, mama notata sanukumvumela.
      Bonisanani ngemali kungade kwehle ntlekele.
      Sanukumvuyisa uSathana.
      Mkhupheni phakathi kwenu kuba kade eyakhela uyayazi.

AN: Watsho kamnandi. Ukhona umhobe kule mihobe yakho siyipapashileyo othi “Iqhosha elingenamthunja”. Nakulo mhobe uyalwa gqitha kakhulu ngezinto zemali. Ingaba ucinga ntoni ngemali le, Nkululeko?

    NP: Into endicinga ngayo ngemali kukuba ngenene yinto ekuphilwa ngayo imali. Kodwa iingxaki ezininzi zivela ngemali. Kuba ngoku xana ndithelekisa nezinto ikakhulu ezidibene nothando, uthando lwangoku ayiselo thando ngokwaneleyo. Seyiluthando nje oludibene nemali.

AN: Khawutsho ke lo mbono obuhlungu kangaka othetha ngawo apha kulo mhobe ugqiba kuwufunda othi “Konakele ukuhlala” ingaba yinto owakha wayibona ngamehlo enyama le uthetha ngayo?

    NP: Ewe le nto ndiyibhekisayo yinto endakha ndayibona ngamehlo enyama, kodwa ukuyibeka kwam mna ndiyibeke ngokomzi wasekhaya, ndiyikwekwa, ndingafuni ukuba ndiye kuveza isiduko, kuba iziduko zamaXhosa ziyafana. Ndingathi ndisingisele kumzi othile, kuba ndiqinisekile imizi emininzi iyigubungele le ngxaki.

AN: O, ithethe intokokuba ingxaki oyibone entlalweni uye wayithatha wayenza eyakho, wazibeka kwimeko yalo mntu okanye yaba bantu bakule ngxaki.

    NP: Ewe ndiyenze njalo, Mr Nyamende.

AN: Watsho kamnandi ke ngalo mhobe wakho othi “Konakele ukuhlala”, umhobe okhalaza ngemeko yentlalo nendlela imali esijika sibe zizilwanyana ngayo. Ingaba sekukhona noveli uyibhalileyo?

    NP: Andikabinayo inoveli endiyibhalileyo, Mr Nyamende.

AN: Ujonge ukuqala nini? Kuba ndikhe ndakuva uthetha ngokuba uza kubhala iinoveli, ubhale namabalana amafutshane, njalo-njalo.

    NP: Ingxaki, inoveli ifuna ixesha elaneleyo nethuba elininzi. Ngoku ke ithuba elininzi andinalongo ngokwaneleyo.

AN: O, amabalana amafutshane wona ingaba sewukhe wawabhala?

    NP: Ewe, amabalana amafutshane ndikhe ndawabhala.

AN: Yintoni kanye ozama ukuba mawuyibonise xa ubhala ibali elifutshane?

    NP: Maxa wambi kuyenzeka ibali lithethe ngento eyenzekayo phandl’ apha. Kwelo bali ndiveze indlela esithi sivele ngayo mhlawumbi isifo ugawulayo kwanendlela esinokuthi sikhuselwe ngayo.

AN: Ithethe into yokuba nalapha kula mabalana amafutshane ukwathetha ngesifo ugawulayo.

    NP: Ewe, ndikwabhekisa kwa ilizwi elinye.

AN: Kukhona umhobe wakho othi “Thina mzi kantu silahlekelwe”. Uthetha ngomntu wakwaNdzitshe phaya. Ngubani loo Ndzitshe?

    NP: UNdzitshe nguMakhosandile owayengumsasazi kuMhlobo Wenene owathi wasutywa kukufa naye singalindelanga. Ndaze ndathi mna ngobumbongi bam ndachukumiseka kuba ndimazi ebengumntu ebantwini, umntakaNdzitsho.

AN: Njengembongi uthi xa ubonga uye kufikelela kwiziduko zabantu. Nalapha ke uthi xa uqalisa ubonga uNdzitshe lo uqale ngesiduko sakho uzazise ukuba uyimbongi yamaTolo. Ingaba uzazi kangakanani iziduko ezi?

    NP: Iziduko andinalwazi luphangaleleyo ngazo. Zimbalwa kakhulu endizaziyo.

AN: Xa ujongile ingaba njengamntu ke ongumbhali nonomdla entlalweni uthi iziduko ezi zizinto esifanele ukuba sihlale sinazo?

    NP: Ewe, Mr Nyamende, ndingathi kunyanzelekile. Iziduko zizinto ekufuneka sihlale sinazo kuba seyisisiqhelo sethu singamaXhosa, sesikwazi ukohlulana ngazo. Nobuhlobo sibakha kwangazo.

AN: Nkululeko, phambi kokuba siphethe le ngxoxo yethu, ingaba ufuna ukuthini kubantu abangababhali — kuba ke le ngxoxo yethu iza kufundwa ngabantu abakwiindawo ngeendawo nabantu abangababhali besiXhosa? Ingaba njengombhali ethetha kwabanye ababhali uthini wena?

    NP: Elam ilizwi endiza kulibhekisa kubabhali ndithi masiqine, simeleni ilizwe lethu. Abekho abanye abantu abajongiweyo ngaphandle kwethu. Eli lizwe lixhomekeke kuthi, koko masingapheli amandla.

AN: Enkosi, ndiyabulela kakhulu ke Nkululeko Peter. Nangomso.

    NP: Kulungile, Mr Nyamende.

AN: Ngathi ke ubusanxubele ukuba ukhe ube nelizwi olibhekisayo ngeAIDS. Ndiyakukhulula ke ukuba ukhe ube nelizwi olibhekisayo kulutsha.

    NP:

      Intlaba mkhosi

      Iwu-u-u! Ndasivuthel’ isigodlo!
      Lutsha konakele, kwaye kwenzekile kudaliwe,
      Akukho kwenza ngakumbi.
      Nzame sizenzile
      Kodw’ impundul’ eyaziway’ isaphuncuka.
      Linye kuphela, xhobani.

      Amazwi ethu atshile.
      Kudala siyibika le nto,
      Siyipheka siyophula,
      Siyihlisa kumazwe ngamazwe,
      Kodw’ impundul’ eyaziway’ isaphuncuka.
      Linye kuphela, xhobani.
      Ncincilili.


AN: Enkosi kakhulu!

phezulu


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